She said she can see and treat me but she can not see and treat my husband because he will retaliate against her and inevitably, she will end up in court during my divorce and she cant have that happen. That was the first sign something was up with her. I dont have much advice for you, as I am choosing to stay with my partner and trying to accommodate him and mitigate the craziness (hes a scorched earth type of person if youve slighted him). Ok fine. She went on to inform me that my husband is a blatant narcissist and that I should get my house in order to run for the hills. Stay neutral and calm. We also support the family and friends who care about them, Read mental health information and watch stories from people like you at your own pace, Find out how to support us in making positive change for people affected by complex mental health issues. She asked if I saw my husbands intake form, which I did not. All the time. I wonder if emotional focused therapy would be helpful for you guys. Be aware theyll likely order one for you as well, if his lawyer is decent. If he was diagnosed, and was willing to seek therapy and help, he could learn to still be an effective parent. I am still trying to deal with my feelings and mourn the loss of what I thought the relationship was and could be. Don't make it appear that you're disappearing or 'stealing' your children away from your husband because that will come back to bite you. File for divorce, get yourself a good support system. It is unwise to seek prominence in a field whose routine chores you do not enjoy. I just read your comment and almost wrote the same thing in reply to you! Because maybe these crazy things that I battle with inside are much more real than I think. Is it possible for you to file for separation to immediately remove herself and your child from your husband until you figure out the best approach towards divorce? Youll need a divorce lawyer. Just read your comment about credit cards. it sounds horrible, but quality fluctuates from area to area, some are pretty decent. Hes an introvert. I watched some of Dr. Ramani's videos on youtube. Or his kids. Lots of passive aggressive behaviour if they don't like what you are doing. Your post was very moving and I learned something from it. Also she should have referred to someone else who could help DH. Connect with a lifeline crisis supporter (24Hrs). Shy. I actually spoke to my friend last night and all the time I was listening carefully for any kind of manipulative thing that might come up. And I have wondered why she labels so many peopleas 'boring' - people are just people - if you find others boring, then you are not trying hard enough to actually get to know them, in my opinion. A friend just finalized divorce from a narcissist and it was a long process. But regardless, if youre worried for your safety or your childs, its time to get out. Ive experienced many silent treatments over the years as well. This action cannot be undone. Covert Narcissist - my friend could be one? I would have taken it all with a grain of salt, if she would have labeled him with something that I didnt already think of 1000 times. I agree with other posters that at this time its probably about getting things documented. But I was used to being treated badly, so I didn't know any difference. First, I love your username Schitts Creek is my favorite! Isnt treating people like him her job? And while OPs husband may be a narcissist, this is not at all an appropriate or ethical way of handling it. Finally, narcissists are very manipulative, thats probably the biggest thing to remember. Her husband could justifiably file a complaint against her license that would land her in court fighting to get it back. Be sure I have control over some of it. I don't even know if she really is a covert narcissist or not- or just someone with problems. - if straight away do you tell her why or just be really busy all the time? She has not borrowed money from me or asked for anything else. This has helped clear some thoughts. Till now. Sometimes I have to get up and walk around and think about it - this was just the case -. One thing I can't deal with is thinking that her interest in me as a person was entirely faked, just to feed her narcissistic supply! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Youll need a divorce lawyer. She went on to advise me on some good key first steps, some divorce information, some words of wisdom and implored me to trust her on this. I hope OPs husband sign led a release for her to discuss things with OP, since the husband was supposed to be the patient and not OP. Does the label matter? I think its called "Should I stay or should I go". Because if she did it with OPs husband, Id be SHOCKED if she wasnt doing the same thing in other cases. Maybe tell your husband the reason youve been rejected from these places is because of him and demand he seek therapy individually for at least 2 months of weekly visits before youll go together? SANE values diversity. Thats a good example of her own trauma bleeding into her practice and making her do questionable things. Perhaps they might suspect it an treat you as though you could be one, but not actually say it? Meaning, you may not know for a long time that youre dealing with a narcissistic person, because they act more introverted, may pretend to be humble, etc. But I do think you should see a therapist on your own! What has helped me *immensely* is the YouTube channel The Little Shaman. I actually dont think what the therapist did was very professional. Best of luck! from what i understand, there are only a few dv shelters in the whole US that accept men. That goes against APA best practices and ethical conventions. After reading that covert narcissist thing, that was the missing piece! Its been this odd paranoia of mine for a while! The former for confirming stories that you are *not* crazy, and the latter for stories regarding the childs point of view of having a narc parent and also some insight on enabling parents and how they affect their kids. It was one giant step too far for me! Very little direct conversation, controlling in conversation to keep you on your toes. Like I said, Id definitely ask for an evaluation.
Tell close family members or friends, people that you trust, of what you're planning and do it quickly.
And also your sister,@Bestlife- to the point where you needed to cut contact. What I mean is my uOCPDw behaves this way not out of a specific plan or even with any intent of causing harm, she is just wired this way. The longer you stay; the harder he will make it to leave. In regards to covert narcissism, if thats what hes dealing with (what YOURE dealing with, really) it can be pretty scary. If there's any paperwork regarding debt and make sure that there's nothing in your name that your husband could use to make it seem like you're an unfit mother. I hope it works out for you. If you decide to move forward with divorce; and if you truly have concerns for his mental health, I would have your lawyer request a fitness evaluation in regards to his parenting and overall mental health. I mean, that would be very confronting, wouldn't it?
So the the psychologist was going to see my husband first for one session and then bring me into the consecutive sessions. I cut communication after that. Upon further research into narcissism, it turns out there are basic subtypes among mental health professionals. I never asked him because thats private. I just let them fly over my head these days. It was coming from a good place from her but I can also see how of fed my underlining paranoia. however, there are homeless shelters. And there he was! Totally agree. I was like RED FLAG! Then its madness and rage, off the scale. This should be documented in some form, or ask for a written statement of denial of service and an explanation why. This was the reason she said she couldnt end up in court. This is really hard. Ive been married for 5-6 years now and long story short, its been awful! so they immediately hook you up to everything you could possibly qualify for: health insurance, foodstamps, ssi, section 8 housing, etc. We are committed to providing a safe, culturally appropriate, and inclusive service for all people, regardless of their ethnicity, faith, disability, sexuality, or gender identity. i know it will be challenging, Very glad to hear this, and that services were available to you. Also a certain smug ness / superiority which is not necessarily as outwardly displayed as in the overt.
might be worth it, idk. I think it would be more harmful to you to divorce him without continuing through with therapy and getting his issues documented. I think her put downs and subtle criticismsare ways of trying to control me. 100%! I dont know what to do. Im sure the therapist here meant well, but armchair diagnosis is unethical, and also not really helpful to OP (or anyone). No doubt he saw his own emptiness and he loathed it, Let's not took too long - hey - but alas Narcissus did, First impressions can be really accurate - perhaps because as we learn about them we gather other data and maybe it's right or not but - you thought your frenemy seemedempty - that might have been reinforced as you heard what she had to say after all, The mouth speaks what the heart if full of, And listening to this person gathering info you did pass on to her and was reflected back to you in "put-down" ways - I can see that this person did not have a back-ground of knowledge of many things we mostly see from other people - we often can't wait to share ourselves and do and that's what makes a relationship - shared inner lives, As you and I have shared about difficult mothers and this is a bond -, It's not easy - ah - personality disorders - I don't really know about labels as in diagnoses regarding disorders but no doubt they exist - the disorders exist - some people have a dx that might be right or wrong but they are the same person as after the dx as before, Personally I would trust my feelings - that inner gut feeling can protect us, I am really interested in this subject and looking forward to hearing more about what you decide, If you need urgent assistance, see Need help now For mental health information, support, and referrals, contact SANE Support ServicesSANE Forums is published by SANE with funding from the Australian Government Department of Health SANE - ABN 92 006 533 606 C/O 700 Swanston St, Carlton VIC 3053. She can be a lot of fun, but I recently caught her out in a lie. This is a difficult and complex situation and you deserve support. Then if you still choose to, divorce him. I wish you the best of luck!! And I almost feel like the worst part is, even if I did consider staying for a while longer or whatever, how will that decision look to a court? A Group Owner is a member that has initiated the creation of a group to connect with other members to share their journey through the same pregnancy & baby stages. A lot of envy of others coming out of a quiet sense of entitlement. SAME. Get out. RED FLAG! .
with health professionals in the background to make sure everything is safe and supportive. I think its best the OP didnt continue with her anyway. Group Owners uphold the core values of the brand by reporting content that violates the community guidelines. these are only to friends and family. you have no idea how soot on this is. SANE acknowledges the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples as traditional custodians of the land on which it operates. Again: if this is what you feel youre dealing with, I would advise you dont stay married. SANE offers connection and community to people with complex mental health issues including trauma. 2022Everyday Health, Inc, The views expressed in community are solely the opinions of participants, and do not reflect those of What to Expect. Which I dont! Hence, she was able to discover which subtle 'put downs' to use on me. This is what brought all my suspicionsto a head. But it was OK, she has a lot of problems (but nothing she was blamingme for!) They might just do a lot of therapy around developing empathy for others, or whatever. Start making sure you know where your money is and that youre not being monitored somehow. I knew I was coming to the right place! I don't know, though, because she has been a big part of my life. A covert narcissist is a narcissistic person whos able to hide it much more easily, because they dont have the grandiosity complex thats typically associated with those diagnosed with NPD. What am I up against? Two of her other friends have recently told me that they strongly suspect her of trying to flirt with their husbands and possibly even more, if she had the chance. I know the right step now is offense! I have a few observations about covert narcissists. I also notice regular conversation often involves me being asked lots and lots of questions I think it is to make me feel off balance/ on defence I don't know why. Group Leaders communicate with staff moderators and escalate potential violations for review, but they dont moderate discussions. Found someone else and did our intake forms. And very recently.. Ive had this awful feeling that hes trying to kill me! If you really believe him to be a covert narcissist- leave. 
You do need individual therapy so you can heal and dont end up in the same dynamic next time. After filling out intake forms for one psychologist, suddenly, they didnt have room in their schedule for us. You must log in or register to reply here. My husband. Its funny you mention money because we had a disagreement 2 weeks ago and he was so angry he called a few people and told them he didnt know what I was going to do to the baby and transferred ALL of our savings from our joint account to his personal account. I think its fine for the therapist to say she cant help him, but that call should have been made to DH. i have found shelter and a network of help (i live in nyc) and am about to utilize those resources. But if you defend yourself / strongly disagree with something which they perceive as all about them ( even if it isn't) then all the PA gaslighring etc comes out . This is so helpful! cuz, yeah, if you have a place to stay and food to eat - no matter what else - your applications for assistance will be turned down or placed in the back of the line. You may have found the same thing? I feel like Im spinning around in circles. She explains everything about everything about everything regarding narcissists. Humble. But now this does not really feel authentic to me. Use of this site is subject to our terms of use and privacy policy. However, few years ago when I worked as a volunteer at my local facility we did get a small percentage of phone calls from men seeking help to leave abusive situations. She advised me to get another individual therapist (I actually already have one but theyre based in my previous city and the psyD that called me said I need someone in my current state. Thanks for sharing and I hope for the best for you . He is meant to be excellent - I know other people who see him and who highly recommendhim. Like meeting him for the first time, a covert narcissist. Theres also professionals called forensic accountants in case hes hiding money but timing is important. I will advise you on these: do NOT tell your husband what you are doing, by the way. What you write about Narcissism is really interesting - I have a friend who has told me it seems as if my mother might have been naracisstic - I always thought of my mother as codependent but what you write fits her too so - yes - intriguing, You are right - any put-downs - subtle or not - are toxic and I lived with them until I walked out - often over decades - and they do drag us down and I found myself self-questioning too much until she died - it took me a long time but you seem to have got your frenemy's number - people who live empty lives do tend to need other people for entertainment, Yes - her asking you personal questions and a lot of them might be to have a goal to have you there to fill her life and use her "put-downs", I'm glad she hasn't borrowed money from you nor anything else but imo time is more valuable - I'm glad you already have her figured out - now you can be on your guide, It's so interesting - but be wary - yes -. Other than that, this isnt something that can be combatted alone and I dont believe its safe for you to continue on with him according to the psychologists recommendation. We strive to provide you with a high quality community experience. About your frenemy - it must be hard to know what to do about her - after all she might be a person who has problems - I think it would need to be assessed as to how much this is impinging into your life - and a choice - do you need to cut it off straight away or gradually? I agree with this part of the thread as well. Until she's not. Auto-suggest helps you quickly narrow down your search results by suggesting possible matches as you type.
Intake forms can absolutely show red flags, but they cant provide enough information for a diagnosis. further, she has nothing to support that claim. And he is getting crazier the stronger I get. But with a narcissist this is kind of difficult, becausethey alreadythink they are great with empathy, even when they are so not. The main reason seems to be that they always have to act in their client's best interest and so if it was not in their best interest to receive this label (and how could it be?) After years of back and forth, up and down, hot and cold, love and hate, I came to realize that my partner is also a narcissist. For not doing what is in the best interest of the child? I wouldnt trust her after the way she handled the situation. Find a good divorce lawyer for just you. It's like a mouse living in a cat shelter; they see bad things everywhere.
what she has done though, is slowly, overtime, hint, then tell stories insinuating me as not just an abuser, but also as unstable crazy, philandering, addicted and now she just out right says these things. Lawyer up quick. well if she hadnt called OP and said those things, she wouldnt be in trouble. You do need individual therapy so you can heal and dont end up in the same dynamic next time. as a therapist I was reading this like thats unethical af but ok. Lol. She never saw the husband face to face and cannot make any diagnosis at all.
My poor poor overworked husband. I cant imagine filling out paperwork and having them say they wont see us because of my husband. She told me to get my finances in order. For the longest time I have felt like he was setting me up to always look bad. But a mutually agreed upon (by your lawyers and/or the court) clinician could potentially diagnose and also offer insight into how it would impact his parenting- this WOULD hold up in court. First, I would highly advise you to request some form of written documentation from the psychologist you spoke with, stating that based on his self provided evaluation, hes exhibiting narcissism to a degree that jeopardizes her safety as his psychologist. There are so many points in this thread that I dont know where to start.
I think my mother - probably narcissist - is quite balanced. How do you figure this out? So - the question is how would you feel about things if she wasn't in your life.Maybe you would feel guilty - actually when my cut my mother I would ask myself all day if I would go and see her every day and every night I would be glad I hadn't, This went on until she died and now I am glad I stood my ground - we need not give people the right to make us unhappy - over-think things - feel bad about ourselves or feel put down, My suggestion is to start slowly and see how it goes and find out how your feel - in the meantime keep in touch and get the opinion of other people in the forum - across the demographics here we have enough people that between us we have felt just about everything - it's a great data-base. Meaning do it as legitimate couples therapy, even if you have to pay for it. Deep down though, they are filled with self-loathing. in regards to her allegations that i am the abuser she has never, to the best of my knowledge, formalized any legal documentation to that affect. Please select a reason for escalating this post to the WTE moderators: The educational health content on What To Expect is reviewed by our medical review board and team of experts to be up-to-date and in line with the latest evidence-based medical information and accepted health guidelines, including the medically reviewed What to Expect books by Heidi Murkoff. I remember well you writing about your Mum in the past and I had a difficult Mum too, so we will always have that in common. Now I have the proof that its a lot more intentional than I thought. Yes - it was hard with my mother - in the end I cut contact with her - told her she had been driving me away all my life and that was the last day - and walked out. This action cannot be undone. I don't much care for labels and I am not a psychologist, so I have no right to label her, anyway. But she had another side which was nasty and which I knew I didn't deserve, as I am always nice to her. He obviously knows I was dead serious because for the first time ever, he agreed to marriage counseling. You need to run a report and remove him from all your credit cards ASAP. The funny thing is that she actually had no reason to lie to me, so I don't understand it. We pay respect to Elders past, present and emerging, and value the rich history, unbroken culture and ongoing connection of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people to country. This advice is just that. She is seeing a therapist and has done so for over 10 years. The woman who I often call my 'best friend' is someone who I now strongly suspect of being a very toxic individual - what they call a 'covert narcisist'. I absolutely love your advice! Inside, she is very empty. My advice would be to go to a different therapist on the up and up. Everyone likes to be askedabout themselves. I know she meant well because she told me her first husband was a narcissist and just didnt want anyone to go through what she went through. Thank you so much. Every bit of literature Ive seen so far gives basically the same advice that this women just gave me. Is there a way I can still get any of that without jeopardizing the psychologist career? A Group Leader is a What to Expect community member who has been selected by our staff to help maintain a positive, supportive tone within a group. It is quite rude to dismiss people in that way. I came here to say the same thing. Interesting. On a more serious note- Im guessing the real reason the therapist told OP she couldnt go to court to help OP is because she knows shed be in serious trouble for this. Because lately, I feel like I dont even know what my husband may be capable of. It's like it simmers at the root the whole time. It's funny, that is actually the first thing I realized about my friend - not that she was manipulative (which she definitely is) - but that she is so empty. This is hard to deal with. Very interesting forum. And I fell for it year after year. Are you sure you want to delete your comment? in response to: Re: Covert Narcissist - my friend could be one. I agree with your assessment of the therapist. But Im dizzy. You know there is an issue and youre seeking therapy to work it out. But of the person is not treating you as a friend should. All of the signs were there, I just had no idea what I was looking at. Dr. Ramani discusses that in her video. But having been through this, Id say get out while youre still (mostly) in one piece. I have always wondered if my husband is a narcissist (Among other things) but for some reason it never seemed to fit exactly right. If you feel a message or content violates these standards and would like to request its removal please submit the following information and our moderating team will respond shortly. When she misbehaved at my wedding they could give me a gauge of reality. Do it now. This is a woman who subtly puts me down is many ways and whenI call her out, she then turns it around to look like I am accusing her wrongly. I was having the same idea about my sister. She said it will be more than enough time for them to get all the information theyll need. But I do know she is very empty inside. She is more careful in what she says. Idk. And what I find very confusing is a lot of the time very pleasant and none of this obvious.
